If my car and wallet had feelings, my car would like me much more now.

"JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7" (jayzayeighty) 01/28/2015 at 21:08 • Filed to: C4 Update

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My car was as reliable as a 2008 Corolla CE ( Note: I have no personal experience with a 2008 Corolla CE . Nor does that bother me.) At least, that is, until I took it to get it fixed/preventively-maintained (A new word, just for you). It went in for a clutch/flywheel/brake pad and bleeding/coolant/diff oil job and came out with a bashed fuel line. I would have done the non-clutch things but my mechanic basically threw the rest in. The diff needs to be tapped for a drain plug, so no new diff fluid. So I took it back in for the fuel line and it was fine for a day. Until I did a bumper-to-bumper commute in third when the shifter decided to stop shifting and had it towed back to the shop; the clutch line was busted. Then that was fixed, and the clutch slave cylinder blew. Then on top of that, the master cylinder blew. Well, those are 30 year old parts for ya. However, the clutch pedal is ful of feels and half as heavy which was nice. I'm finally driving off, broke, when I pull out into the road by a couple engines and can't stop—there's no brake pressure and I pull on the handbrake. An asshole in an AMG lays on the horn as I try to reverse, having shifted just one gear with the totally different clutch and going backwards up an incline going very slowly (that is, until I accidentally rev the ol' pushrod to 4k and for some reason that shuts them up as I start going backwards(this is too descriptive for something that took a total of no more than 3.5 seconds)). So I popped the hood open and, sure enough, the brake master cylinder now shoots fluid when I press the pedal. I'm guessing it's a result of the brake bleed. So there's some more money. I can't really blame the car or mechanics, as the ancient parts that support the new parts can't keep up and that's the price to pay for not having to drive a modern car. But if only those things had been sorted I'd rather have spent it on an NA Miata (which would have been a poor financial decision in the first place).

StingrayJake > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/28/2015 at 21:10

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RIP wallet :(

jkm7680 > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/28/2015 at 21:11

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Sounds like these issues mostly are what came from that preventative maintenance. Old cars are sorta insanely quirky. C4s do seem to be very reliable in general though.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > StingrayJake 01/28/2015 at 21:17

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He never really prospered, always feeling empty...

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > jkm7680 01/28/2015 at 21:22

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They are, since the aging supporting components supposedly can't stand up to the increased pressure from the new clutch/brake fluid I suppose. On the bright side, the clutch is probably 3 times better than before and I have far less to worry about for the next several years. Any 30 year old component is prone to failure under higher pressure, so I will continue to be a rabid proponent.

crowmolly > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/28/2015 at 21:23

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You can pump the old diff fluid back out through the drain hole. Just sayin'

Sounds like a nasty run of bad luck. Do you still have the original brake HOSES, too? If so they are probably due for a change, and hey, you are paying for a bleed anyway.

That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/28/2015 at 21:30

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Is it weird that this post just made me miss my C4?

It's weird how shit like that happens in bunches. It's like everything degraded, so when you change out one part with a new one it's working better and makes everything else break. Happens at my job all the time...we replace one leaking hydraulic line and another blows when we test it.

jkm7680 > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/28/2015 at 21:30

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The thing about the clutch sounds great! A slipping clutch is no fun at all.

The availability of parts is also great. Everything from the community to the look is pretty damn spot on with the C4.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms 01/28/2015 at 21:35

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Because of this post, maybe a little! But I totally get it—your '84 Z51 had the most track ready chassis of any standard 'Vette from the factory. I like my normal suspension for everyday driving but yours was a recipe for a C5 killer with an LS1 thrown into the mix. That's the perfect way of putting it, too. Old cars don't like systems to be partially replaced, because what isn't can't keep up with what is...

or something like that.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > crowmolly 01/28/2015 at 21:44

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Ah, I'm not completely sure that I understand you correctly but the issue was getting the new fluid in. According to the forums and the mechanic, it would need to be removed or a plug must be installed, so I'm leaning towards just putting in a filler plug. Also, the hoses have been done because of the reason you just mentioned. At least this gets a lot out of the way and there are two time bombs checked off.

That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/28/2015 at 22:00

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It might have been the picture. I love an early C4. Mine was a hot mess, but if you managed to get it at an angle where it was all the same color, it looked great!

I'd try to find another, but I think it was far and away my wife's least favorite car I've ever owned. Maybe some day...

crowmolly > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/28/2015 at 22:50

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Sorry, I mis-typed it.

Your mechanic can suck the fluid out of the FILL hole with a vacuum pump or hand pump. Won't get every last drop of old fluid but it will get fresh stuff in there until you have the time/money to get the drain plug put in. Chances are when you do that you may gear swap it/upgrade the suspension/etc anyway.

Takuro Spirit > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/28/2015 at 22:58

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Saw a red C4 at the Chevy dealer that did my emissions test this morning. Thought of you. Sorry no pics, but it looked just like yours but..... not for sale.

Axial > That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms 01/28/2015 at 23:17

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Don't worry, the prices on the C4 aren't going anywhere soon unless it's a ZR-1 or Grand Sport. :)

Manuals will probably be at somewhat of a premium, though, especially the 6-speeds.

Axial > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/28/2015 at 23:19

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The order of component failure in each of these sub-systems is just too sequential, as in the parts are failing in order of appearance from the fluid's perspective. I find that a little bit sketchy.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > crowmolly 01/30/2015 at 16:18

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Oh, I see what you mean. I actually went and bought a fluid pump just for this, but he said it wouldn't be possible. The problem is that the fill hole is not accessible with the diff installed IIRC, but it seems to me that people drill the fill hole with the diff already in the car. Again, I'm probably wrong here but that's what I've gathered. Thanks for the advice.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > Axial 01/30/2015 at 16:23

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Yeah, I definitely see what you mean. But I've known these guys for over a decade and trust them, so we'll see if the problems end at the brake master cylinder. The clutch was really far gone, and the slave/master cylinders were also (he's shown me every failed component and everything checks out), so it seems to me that the new clutch would have overwhelmed them. Same probably goes for brake pressure. But this is a lot of money to dump into a car was perfectly reliable for 9 months all the same. By the way, how's the ZR1? Have you figured out the squeaking? Mine was as suspected—bearings in the clutch were almost destroyed beyond recognition...

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > Takuro Spirit 01/30/2015 at 16:40

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Hah, that's cool to hear! I (unfortunately) never see second gen T/As here.

But I always associate BRG 4th gen V6 Camries with you! Takuro and Camry... together forever...

Takuro Spirit > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/30/2015 at 16:56

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I'm curs-ed!

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > Takuro Spirit 01/30/2015 at 17:00

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I just found out it's a 5 speed. You're not really cursed! I didn't even know they made that gen con manuel. I mean, that's a solid DD. More like "I'm cruised." (New term)

Takuro Spirit > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/30/2015 at 17:06

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Its the last gen that was.... I thought it was very rare, but after I got it I would constantly find two or three per month for sale on Craigslist.

Axial > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 01/30/2015 at 17:18

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The squeaking is a soapy accessory belt and pulley. I didn't put the soap on it, PO did. Gonna have to replace that. Still needs new oil cooler lines, I think a tie-rod end is going poof, and I think I'm going to have to replace the head gaskets soon, but otherwise it runs like a champ. Tape deck decided it wanted to keep my Aux adapter, so it's stuck in there. At least I have music. :p

The '96 LT4 is a great vehicle, even a better vehicle than the ZR-1, but it honestly can't compete with the ZR-1 one in the smiles per gallon department. The smells are so...performance car...and the noises it makes are just something else. And we're not even getting to the behavior of the power-band or how comfortable those seats are (same as your seats, actually).

Good to hear that you've got a trusted mechanic. Since most things are repaired at home for me, it's always an adventure when we have to find somebody to do something that we can't. Be careful when replacing the clutch stuff, though. Aftermarket parts are notoriously bad for the C4, so most people end up going with rebuilt OEM. Is that what your mechanic is doing?

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > Axial 01/30/2015 at 17:35

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Yeah, the LT4 is almost impossible to fault but the ZR1 is timelessly awesome. I don't have the fancy sports seats, but I'd love to install them someday. The LT5 is such a unique engine. I have so little mechanical experience and space for doing work that I wouldn't know where to start with a clutch job. I think all of the parts are from AC Delco, but it seems like Corvette America has the best deal on the brake master cylinder. I'll probably get that tonight. I generally try to stick with Mid America Motorworks, but they don't have the non-ABS master cylinder. Next up is getting the diff fluid changed because I hate to keep dirty oil in a clutch-type LSD...